Wet method - soda bicarbonata

Hello, i´am sorry for creating this new thread but it seems that i can´t post to wet method forum.

And i have to sorry for my english - i´am from europe and i can´t speak so well.

I have tried to do wet method with lye and then i have discovered baking soda methode, that i think should be better.

I´am using himayala salt and disstilled water -

For 150 g of salt i have used 1 l of water and 100 ml of dissolved baking soda (30 grams dissolved in 100 ml)

I have poured the soda into the salt concetrate and after dissolving i have filtered that solution.

Now it´s two days and i can see the crystal forming on the top - could this be undissolved baking soda?
I have tried to drop few undissolved soda powder to solution and it immediately turned to crystals on top - so i´am thinking that crystals on top are soda.

When the crystals will appear on the bottom?
And is there possibility to grow crystal on string that is hunging from above? (as i did and waiting for results - like when you grow crystals from KAl(SO4)2

Thank you very much for your answers.

M.

hallo and good day..

first welkom to the forum..
and dont worry about the new topic,
this is the area of the forum for those things
i also opened up the rest of the forum for u to post

now for the question you have..

i must say i did not do allot of testing with himayala salts, my salt is not so potentate in any method, so i have a bad comparison,
but i can tel u what i think is happening,

when i use Dead sea salt it will form crystals very fast, within hours "crystal skin"
that it takes a some what longer time, to crystalize is normal. in the sens when there is not allot of magnesium in the solution the crystallization is very slow, the magnesium wants to come out of solution pretty quick and takes some of the xstate minerals out of the solution as well, but every time it is crystallized it will go slower,
now for the himayala salt this is already the case.. not allot of magnesium is in there so crystallization is slow, and i find that nice as it will give better "purer" results, in less crystallizations.

now if u have used 30grams if NaHCO3 in 100ml of distilled water, well this would be quite allot and ony 1/3 would dissolve.
so allot of undissolved NaHCO3. if we look at wikipedia we can see that you can dissolve about 9g of NaHCO3 in 100ml water.
so do a little less for the 100ml of water.

as himayala salt is mostly sodium chloride and some calcium chloride and some other trace elements and bough are highly soluble in water so for the 150g of salt in 1L of water is good.
and would not cause allot of saturation. so the one thing u need to do is using less NaHCO3 or more water.

so if u want to check if its NaHCO3 then add some water and see if it dissolves, if it does its prob NaHCO3 if it does not its other goodness... now one thing u should check is the ph of the solution that is crystallizing id do this with home made ph drops, and these work fine for the job but strips will do fine as well, the ph should be 8-8.5 if this is the case than you are good, if its lower add some more NaHCO3 solution to it, be sure to not add raw NaHCO3 crystals, so make a nice solution

this will start the crystallization process, this will take time,
and its not a good idea to add a string as a seed, as it will tent to want to crystallize on the top of the dish, do make sure u have a large area for the crystals to form
let it be in contact with air...
repeat the process about 2 times, to get the pure goodness u need..
dont let is sit to long, see if the crystals form, if they stop you can add some more solution to it and see if it wants to crystallize some more, if it stops. filter the solution, and collect the crystals,
if u let the pure crystals sit to long they will dissolve again, this is not a bad thing as u can use that to get even a better elixir, but the thats little of scope

i hope u can go forward with this information and if u do have more questions please ask, or better take a photo and post it, so that i can see the crystals that are forming

kind regards

Hello Panoramix, Thank you for your response.

I have tried to do another batch -

First i have heated distilled water a little, so i can dissolve little more NaHCO3.
I´ve used 150 grams of himalaya salt and  dissolved this salt in 500 ml of distilled water and then i have added my prepared solution of NaHCO3 (50 grams of NaHCO3 in another 500 ml of water)

After everything dissolved, solution was filtered twice via fine paper filter and measured ph which was about 8 - 9.

This time i have let the solution in glass bowl and it´s third day and smooth layer of crystals are on the walls of bowl.

Here are the images (sorry for quality, its from mobile phone - i don´t have my pro camera availible now.

Bowl with filtered solution of salt and NaHCO3


Crystals on the top


BTW i have bought DSS so next experiments will be proceeded with DSS.
What i´ve found not very practical about Himalaya salt is large amount of iron oxides which chokes up in a filter and then filtering is slow.

hola,

well that looks quite good, if i look at the photos..
just make sure that u let the solution (NaHCO3) cool before filtering and before u add it to the salt solution, as the reaction that forms in endothermic and will begin to cool, and so will eject some of the NaHCO3..

but how it looks is ok, just let it sit for some time now.
redissolve it and precipitate again to get your self some pure goodness


kind regards..

Hello everyone.
Slowly small crystals are appearing on the bottom.
And more surface crystals are floating.
I must say that bowl is placed in total dark, so evaporation is quite slow. But that´s not a problem.

Posting images of progress.

Bowl with crystals


Crystals on the bottom

Hello everybody - updating the experiment with new better photos.

In the bowl it seems that crystals are dissolving back to water


I have made new batch with DSS - 75 G of DSS to 250 ml disstiled water and about 28 grams of NaHCO3 in 300 ml water.
And it´s already making crystals, very nice and it seems that DSS is really better than himalaya salts.

New batch



I will keep posting updates.

Hi everyone, progress in new batch of DSS is nice - crystals are forming and falling to the bottom.

But first batch made with himalaya salt doesn´t show anything now, crystals dissolved and nothing happening.

So i added one single crystal of DSS and it immediately started to crystalize but next day all crystals were gone.

So i have added another 9 g of Soda dissolved in 100 ml water and mixed together so i expecting some more growth.

I suggest that it´s depending on that lack of magnesium in himalaya salt.

One question:
Can i heat solution in bowl to get water vaporized earlier?
Will it destroy ormus?

Hello everyone i have made new batch
- 150 g of DSS dissolved in 450 ml of dissolved soda (40 grams)

So it´s first time i have used only 450 ml of soda water for dissolving 150 grams of DSS - then i have filtered solution and during the solution whole liquid started to buble and fizzle.

here´s video:




Now today it´s beautifully layered with crystals on top of surface and on the bottom (and it seems that there is a lot of crystals on the bottom)
That surface crystals covered the surface of water and now it´s sealed by crystals.

But strange is that whole thing is still bubling and fizzing - very strange - some ideas why?

Some more images of new batch - rear view


Top


And image of first batch (bowl)

Hello there is new video with bubbling sounds and it´s second day.


One question:

It´s better to pour last 1/10 or 3/10 of liquid into buchner filter and filter?
Or i can evaporate all liquid and scrap the crystals from glass?

I don´t have buchner filter so please recommend some idea.

Thanks

Hello i tried to heat the batch 1 and added about 10 grams of DSS - it started to precitipate white fluffy things.
I´am really interested because it´s himalaya salt with NaHCO3 and precitipate started to form when adding DSS (maybe because magnesium contained in DSS?)


Heres the image upon the heating


Solution after straining into new container


This is batch 3


And this is batch 2


Batch 1 - detail


And for summarizing the experiments there is a overview

hay and good day,

yes the magnesium helps in making the crystals,
the thing is that the crystals that redissolve are very pure crystals, and u need to remove them before they will dissolve again in the solution,
with DSS this will take about 2-3 recrystallizations, for the Himalayan salt, as this does not contain allot of Mg will do this allot quicker, what u could do is slowly evaporate the solution with the dissolved crystals, this would leave a non soluble carbonate precipitate, that is calcium and Mg, it will as well leave some sodium chloride, MgHCO3 and CaHCO3 will decompose to a carbonate as they are not stable as solids,

add some good distilled water to this and let it dissolve every thing in there, and filter out the carbonates with filter paper,

now u have a clear solution, recrystallize this solution once more, long nidle crystals willl begin to form, seperate these crystals and recystalize again so that u can remove all the sodium chloride in there and u will be left with water soluble mstate crystals. u can use a freezer to help with the recrystallization .

heating the solution will indeed do strange things, just at the boiling point of the solution it begins to gas and precipitate stuff, when it cools allot of this stuff is redissolved in the solution, not sure what is what in this heating process though,


kind regards, Panoramix

ps this is one of the water soluble crystals that can form with this method..

Hello forum,

I love seeing how each and every one of us is willing to experiment with various ideas. However, we also must be very careful with how we handle even Sodium Bicarbonate.

What you are seeing in the container is a precipitate ( Coagula ) of the minerals that are present in the salt water. Sodium Bicarbonate can cause a precipitate to form if there are minerals present but the energy of the Sodium Bicarbonate just isn't enough to get what is called ORME/ORMUS/M-STATE materials. You need a high energy reaction to take place. You can get this with NaOH solution ( LYE ) or Sodium Elemental ( METAL ) for burning the minerals and metals. A lot of people do not know how this method actually makes or collects the Monoatomic materials. All you have to do is exercise your imagination for a moment. Imagine the Sodium acting as a net. Imagine that the Sodium grabs the M-State as it is released from its trap, from one net to the next. Sodium makes the M-State more available for us to use. Potassium would be too much for the system.

Making crystals is fun and very interesting. But remember that it took a lot of energy to create these mon-atoms and will take quite a bit to collect them as well.

Here is something that you might want to consider trying when it comes to making crystals: Perform your usual drop on dead sea water but this time bring the pH up quite high, to around 12pH. Then allow all the precipitate to settle to the bottom of the vessel. Carefully siphon off the top water as this contains the materials that you are looking for. Place this clear liquid into a suitable container and then begin titrating this with HCL until you get to a neutral pH. Once you reach 7 stop. Allow this to slowly evaporate and watch the formations happen in the vessel. You will have M-State trapped in the salt crystal. slow evaporation makes for interesting formations.

Hallo and good day Stoneharold!

thank u for your reply, interesting what u are saying about the energy level of the sodium bicarbonate, it does seem to want to trap the mstate though, but it makes sens now to me way when i add the H2O2 to these crystals it will free up the sulfur of the work, as the H2O2 hes allot of energy. "H2O2 turns golden color, and when heated a bit "higher energy" will turn a nice  green solution with the sulfur fixed in it, when evaporated there will be left a snow like powder"
sorry for the lighting, but the snow is white as snow,

and the green solution, Dont have a picture of the yellow solution sorry,


thank u for this inside.

in the method you describe, with the sea water,
is interesting as well, are us saying that the sulfur of the work can be traped inside the sodium chloride crystals..? interesting view on solve the coagulate
i have done this once with limestone powder, did not neutralize it deliberately "just experimenting with it some what" but i can remember that the sulfur did fix when ph was neutral when i come to think of it "solution turned clear from a golden color"

from this post
http://mstate-research.nstars.org/t45-calcium-carbonate-experements

i will go and try this crystal forming experiment with the limestone powder and post some visuals of the results


kind regards...

Hello everyone - new update:

I have strained all solutions thru the filter and crystals which i collect i store in new jar with fresh water to clean it from water soluble materials.

I do harvest of crystals one time per week - and liquid, which i call mother liquid is still very potential.

It gives very nice fluffy crystals on the bottom - lets look on the photos.

Mother liquid


Fluffy crystals on the bottom


Mother liquid with purification jar


Total yield of crystals harvested till today



Btw - i´am begginer but i don´t think that you need high energy reaction to get ormus.
I think it´s rather created by implosional forces, which could be really small energy.
Example water is soft and mellow and flows but could make a hole in a stone - it´s only the matter of angleview (i hope it´s correct english )

Hey there. So I've been trying this method and have not come up with a yellowish solution after redissolving the dry powdered crystals/precipitate (from the solution of salt and sodium bicarbonate) with the H2O2. I think I found my problem by reading this thread, and would like to know if my understanding is correct. I have been using DSS.

Initially what I did was allow the sodium bicarbonate and salt solution to precipitate until all formations had completed. Then, I filtered the crystals out of the solution and discarded the solution. I washed the crystals in distilled water and discarded the distilled water. I dried and powdered the precipitate and then added the H202.

From what I was reading above, after my first precipitation I should not discard the salt solution after filtering the crystals. After washing the crystals/precipitate in distilled water I should combine that distilled water (that will contain the purer soluble crystals) back into the salt solution. Then I should add another saturated sodium bicarbonate solution and perform another precipitation. Then repeat a few times.

Or, after my first precipitation should I discard my salt solution and only use the distilled water from washing the precipitate in my second precipitation?

Also, when I am performing my last precipitation with sodium bicarbonate should I be gathering the crystals as they are forming so they don't redissolve?

Sorry for so many questions, I've been reading all of the threads on this method and I'd like to reproduce it and share my information. Reading this thread kinda turned some gears in my head.

HockeyDevil07 wrote:

Hey there. So I've been trying this method and have not come up with a yellowish solution after redissolving the dry powdered crystals/precipitate (from the solution of salt and sodium bicarbonate) with the H2O2. I think I found my problem by reading this thread, and would like to know if my understanding is correct. I have been using DSS.

Initially what I did was allow the sodium bicarbonate and salt solution to precipitate until all formations had completed. Then, I filtered the crystals out of the solution and discarded the solution. I washed the crystals in distilled water and discarded the distilled water. I dried and powdered the precipitate and then added the H202.

From what I was reading above, after my first precipitation I should not discard the salt solution after filtering the crystals. After washing the crystals/precipitate in distilled water I should combine that distilled water (that will contain the purer soluble crystals) back into the salt solution. Then I should add another saturated sodium bicarbonate solution and perform another precipitation. Then repeat a few times.

Or, after my first precipitation should I discard my salt solution and only use the distilled water from washing the precipitate in my second precipitation?

Also, when I am performing my last precipitation with sodium bicarbonate should I be gathering the crystals as they are forming so they don't redissolve?

Sorry for so many questions, I've been reading all of the threads on this method and I'd like to reproduce it and share my information. Reading this thread kinda turned some gears in my head.

It´s too many question and i´am not able to completely response them all.
But if it can help, thats my setup:

I do my "mother liquid"
150g of dss dissolved in 450 ml of NaHCO3 liquid (40 grams for 450 ml of distiled water)
after everything dissolve
- filter to clean jar and then let it crystalize, you can collect crystals everyday by filtering.
After filtering - take crystals and add in "purification jar" (crystals + dis. water - flushing phase)
Liquid which remained you can pour into same glass but you can clean it before (i do it everytime)

After 3 or 6 crystalizations you can discard the liquid (or continue with NaHCO3) But i discarded the mother liquid after 5 - 7 filtrations.

Now you should have dried crystals (snow powder) and you can go on to the phase with H2O2 or you can go to the pin crystals phase (as i was talking with panoramix he was saying that i should add dist. water to crystals and then a dilluted HCl acid (not much) to dissolve crystals - and you after filtration you will have another "mother liquid" from which pin crystals should appear.

I hope it helped a little, i am still aprentice.